skyrlundy: One last
moment on the religious thing. The thing that gets me thinking as I fall
asleep.
You, and I individually know more than every person that
penned the bible knew. All of them.
Collectively.
Added up together.
Stand them all together and we know more than any of
them.
Actually
lo: welllllll it
depends on the theme of jeopardy that night
to be honst
skyrlundy:
HA.
lo:
honest
skyrlundy:
Wait.
Wait.
Verifiable objective knowledge.
They lived in a time where sickness was caused by
demons.
The earth was flat.
We were at the center of the solar system.
lo: if they are
asking about levitical law and geography of the early holy roman empire and the
socio-cultural political climate of babylon- WE ARE FUCKED MY FRIEND
skyrlundy:
Objection, relevance?
They may have social and cultural understanding.
But.
lo: we have
smartphones
:>
skyrlundy: For the
important things that shape our understanding of the world.
They know nothing.
This is especially relevant in how it affects their
morality and understanding of a greater picture.
When someone comes to me and says "have you heard the good
word"
The first thing that comes to mind is "You're defending a
perspective written by a disjointed group of men who were not aware of
anything."
In modern times. People defend an entire code and
understanding based on circumstantial ignorance.
To no fault of the original writers.
But to the fault of those that defend it's texts.
This puts everything that they are talking about in the
realm of alchemy, and astrology.
Even for the fact that if they got something right, it was
entirely by accident.
lo: no, i totally
hear/understand what yr saying.
i cannot help myself from getting all jokey about it. ITS
WHAT I DO/
skyrlundy: Even the
people who want to tell me about the good news know more than the guy who wrote
the gospels.
That keeps me up at night.
lo: i think that i
definitely have a strange....leniency? soft spot?
for religion
skyrlundy: I
understand it.
lo: i didnt always.
i was staunchly super pissed about it for a long time
i think that systematically looking at cultures/religions
thru the eyes of anthropologists, with kind of a sense of wonder and respect for
the things that people made- including their own mythology
DEFINITELY had an impact on me
in that regard
and i also think that- embarrassingly- my own resolution of
open issues with my pastor-father helped soften me up a bit about it,
too
skyrlundy:
True.
lo: i wish that i
could say that i was above such appeals to emotion
but
im not
and i have to be honest about that
skyrlundy:
Understandable.
lo: additionally, my
moms side of the family is catholic
skyrlundy: I have
been in that position.
lo: my grandma was
SUPER catholic
my aunt maria has now sort of taken over my grandmas role
after her death, and now SHE prays for us and gives us a benediction everytime
we leave her house to return to our homes
and
i like it. not because i feel warded
but bc its a familiar ritual and its 100% motivated by love
and it makes me feel good
i also like going to church sometimes. any church. i just
like being there and watching modern day ritual in action.
whether its a buddhist temple or a mormon church or a
catholic service or a christian science or synagogue or whatever
i just am curious
i just want to know
want to see what its like
its the opportunity to see it play out in real time right
in front of me, instead of reading about it
...i am genuinely embarrassed at having told you
thissssssss
hahaha
skyrlundy: You
shouldn't be.
After my self deconversion (I wasn't deconverted by
anyone), I was intensely defensive of religion.
I was also more knowledgeable than most of the other
religious people that I knew. I was really into it.
I had years of wrestling with the feeling in my head that I
was constantly being watched.
Unshackling myself from guilt.
Facing a world in which there was no spiritual safety
net.
It was terrifying.
I couldn't let someone speak poorly of it because even
though I was no longer in it, I still gave it creedence. In a transitional
period, I disagreed with the actual content of the bible, and the beliefs of
superiority, and the treatment of gays, women, and those not of the faith so
much, so entirely much, that I rejected faith and accepted my going to
hell, in protest because I knew it was wrong, but wasn't strong
enough to know that it was all a nasty nightmare.
It was a very intense moment, like my intellect breaking
out of the shell of repression.
In a lot of ways, this traumatic experience is on the
shoulders of an incredible amount of religious people. When we speak of the
"limits of knowledge" when you and I talk to people, it's not just their limit
of knowledge.
You're on the brink of absolute fear. Existential crisis.
Panic.
lo: so. flarbing.
true.
skyrlundy: The
defensiveness is entirely in a mock self-preservation as they, and at one time,
myself, have absolutely no point of reference without the security of
brainwashing.
lo: all of it.
everything yr saying is resonating. pls continue.
skyrlundy: My
friends who had either not grown up religious, or had more of a Disneyland
experience with bible study- I resented them.
I resented them because the nonbelievers had been demonized
my whole life.
I resented the happy go lucky "christians" because it was
obvious that they did not know the words from which they claimed a derivation of
belief.
That point in my life was so incredibly mentally and
emotionally lonely, I went through that alone because I couldn't turn to the
church I was running away from because I knew of it's lies.
I couldn't seek solace in nonbelievers, because I knew more
than they did.
So.
This is where my perspective comes from, and now, so many
years later I have no form of resentment, anger, or bad feelings towards the
faithful.
But when faith and religion are spoken of as a benign
choice- I know that to be very incorrect.
Even in America, where like I was saying the other night,
we have the complete ease of thinking we believe something, and not knowing a
single thing about it.
We have that luxury.
But deep inside my brain, I know that this level of faith
that resides in a good amount of the religious in our country.
Could be triggered to do very bad things.
Like we see in the middle east.
Like we've seen in Africa.
lo: [totally.
absolutely. [the other funny thing is that even people who say that they
understand in and 'believe' evolution- dont really. we're sooooo glibly
ignorant.]
skyrlundy: Like
we've seen during the inquisition and witch trials.
This is my picture of religion. It's makes monsters of
people, and worse.
I'm not going to say that it's something I fear, but it is
something that I understand.
lo: i think that
religion gives something for that instinct to cloak itself in- but the impetus
to NUKE IT FROM THE SKY when things are different or other than ourselves is
sort of innate
skyrlundy: It is,
but nothing is worse than a tribalism in modern days that is reinforced by
divine providence.
A belief, that no matter how challenged as a whole, will
continue to be believed and fought for.
lo: ok yes. that is
hell of true.
tweet that.
'nothing is worse than a tribalism in modern days that is
reinforced by divine providence.'
\that
BC I WANT TO FAV AND RT
also i want to snuggle
skyrlundy: [me
too]
So if we were standing next to each other, overlooking the
world, with what I've just said in mind...
The takeaway is that it is entirely dangerous to have
beliefs which cannot be changed by rational thought.
Faith is incredibly dangerous to ourselves and our
species.
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